Curse

audioaxes · Nov 26, 2005, 06:57 PM // 18:57

its obvious this is a lame duck elite
the closest i came all day to making this skill useful was a "niche CA build" -a sword warrior with that did hamstring -> pure strike -> power attack -> flourish
and then using galrath + final thrust as they charged with hex breaker to slow down all the anti warrior hexers
hamstring is necessary to snare them but also prevents you from doing a 4th energy attack efficiently
it kills but even the worst of warrior builds can still kill in CA

it is a nice idea to have an elite like this that somehow in theory will allow you to spam 5 energy attacks constantly
so here's my attempt to suggest a better version while keeping the spirit of this skill intact:
-shorten the recharge to around 6 seconds
-change it to a shout so you can do it instantly as you attack

this might be decent then in organized pvp if you could somehow get out of not bringing hamstring:

frenzy -> do 3 energy attacks -> flourish -> do 4 energy attacks -> flourish -> do 3 energy attacks -> final -> flourish (repeat)

Ollj · Nov 27, 2005, 05:08 AM // 05:08

add holy strike, banish and all pet attacks to the flourish list.

Bestial Pounce interrupts more often.
Maiming Strike cripples more often.

Are that enough skills that recharge slow enough and cost enough per attack to make flourish worth it?

audioaxes · Nov 27, 2005, 05:22 AM // 05:22

the thought of pet attacks came to mind but id do disrupting lunge instead of beastial which has a 5 sec recharge. And besides, ferocious is WAY too good of an elite skill for a beast master to pass up

Racthoh · Nov 27, 2005, 06:04 AM // 06:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ollj

add holy strike, banish and all pet attacks to the flourish list.

Bestial Pounce interrupts more often.
Maiming Strike cripples more often.

Are that enough skills that recharge slow enough and cost enough per attack to make flourish worth it?

If you're thinking of using Flourish to recharge pet attacks, the last time I tested Flourish it doesn't recharge the pet attacks. Also it would be difficult to fit all pet attacks, along with those monk skills to a Flourish build (unless you meant having them in separate builds).

Mentalmdc · Nov 27, 2005, 12:03 PM // 12:03

how about trying to use this with an echo nuker, recharge meteor strike for a 6 (maybe) strike combo

coldslammer · Nov 27, 2005, 12:40 PM // 12:40

holystrike is a skill, not a attack, so it wont work, garentee it

anyway

warriors endurance > flourish.

Racthoh · Nov 27, 2005, 11:53 PM // 23:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by coldslammer

warriors endurance > flourish.

I'd have to disagree. Being that Warrior's Endurance is a stance you can't use any of the speed buffs or IAS stances available to a warrior.

coldslammer · Nov 28, 2005, 11:33 AM // 11:33

well theres plenty of other things you can use

you can take advantage of the huge bonus of dolyak signet, you can have a speed buff, yes you guessed it, iway

, you can even use WE with spinal shivers.

Racthoh · Nov 28, 2005, 01:31 PM // 13:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by coldslammer

well theres plenty of other things you can use

you can take advantage of the huge bonus of dolyak signet, you can have a speed buff, yes you guessed it, iway

, you can even use WE with spinal shivers.

I'm not sure how Dolyak Signet ties into this since it reduces your speed by 75%. By speed buff I was refering to Sprint or Rush, buy using Warrior's Endurance you would need other warriors using Charge! or an elementalist with Windborne Speed.

Regarding Spinal Shivers, it would be w/n that would use it. Also it takes 1.33 seconds for an attack with a sword or axe. If you want to consistently interrupt them rather than relying on chance, you'll need an attack speed boost. IWAY is not the best option.

Epinephrine · Nov 28, 2005, 02:35 PM // 14:35

I think Flourish is a bit weak, though I am going to try some R/W builds using it - sure, it's only 1 energy per skill recharged, but it only costs 2 energy to activate anyway. Double the rate of distracting shot/debilitating shot for example, and get extra pin down/concussion shot if you want them. It almost seems like a better fit on a ranger than on a warrior - the warrior skills I'd be tempted to try it with are Thrill of Victory/Desperation Blow.

Too Hot Fo You · Nov 28, 2005, 04:28 PM // 16:28

The only problem about flourish is, that most warrior attacks have a very short reload time, so when you used enough skills to make flourish effective, 80% of them are alreddy reloaded.

The idea of flourish is good, and I'm sure it has found its place in some warrior builds, just didn't have the time yet to look for the right skills, and I don't have flourish unlocked, so ... ^^

Racthoh · Nov 28, 2005, 05:14 PM // 17:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Too Hot Fo You

The only problem about flourish is, that most warrior attacks have a very short reload time, so when you used enough skills to make flourish effective, 80% of them are alreddy reloaded.

Agreed, and the ones with the longer recharge typically have a condition to make them of any use. You'd want to use Distracting Blow to disrupt your target. You'd want Bull's Strike to hit a fleeing foe. Thrill of Victory, need to have more health than your target. Desperation Blow, you fall down. Finding a good order to use them in however could prove useful.

Too Hot Fo You · Nov 28, 2005, 08:22 PM // 20:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

Agreed, and the ones with the longer recharge typically have a condition to make them of any use. You'd want to use Distracting Blow to disrupt your target. You'd want Bull's Strike to hit a fleeing foe. Thrill of Victory, need to have more health than your target. Desperation Blow, you fall down. Finding a good order to use them in however could prove useful.

yey, but I can't play at the moment, so I don't have the time to test it, but that's one of the things I wanted to do next. It's kind of my hobby making 'useless' skills powerfull with good builds.
Most people think that the Keystone Signet is useless. Actually I made a really nice tomb build for my meser with it. Anyways, I think the most power in a warrior is liying in the Tactic skills, just had no time yet to look at them carefully.

coldslammer · Nov 28, 2005, 09:57 PM // 21:57

Quote:

I'm not sure how Dolyak Signet ties into this since it reduces your speed by 75%.

well dolyak ties into this because A, you have attributes in strengh, and B if you have strength really high you are able to use dolyak signet to its fullest potential giving you a wooping 42 armor indefinently.

Quote:

Regarding Spinal Shivers, it would be w/n that would use it. Also it takes 1.33 seconds for an attack with a sword or axe. If you want to consistently interrupt them rather than relying on chance, you'll need an attack speed boost. IWAY is not the best option.

well since spinal shivers is triggered when using skills, you can attack(gaining nrg with WE), then use a nrg based attack when you need to interrupt, take a couple more swipes, and use another nrg based attack, using iway of course gets your nrg up quicker.

Racthoh · Nov 28, 2005, 11:48 PM // 23:48

Ah, I was thinking of the skill in a different context. In PvE, I never leave home without Dolyak Signet. Although my warrior typically just farms now as I can't be bothered to attempt to discuss strategy with groups anymore. But in which case though, if you are using IWAY in a PvE context doesn't seem like the best choice. If your allies are dying then I'm not doing my job as a warrior.

Lexar · Nov 29, 2005, 01:01 AM // 01:01

It's great on a sword warrior. Hamstring costs a lot of energy, so it's nice to get some back, but for example savage slash, the recharge time is 10 seconds, so you can now interrupt twice in about 3 seconds. You would want to go with about 3 energy based attack skills. Pure strike, seeking blade, savage slash, thrill of victory, or go for a dolyak signet and use desperation blow a few times to stack up the conditions. Flourish really opens up the energy attacks for a mostly adrenaline based audience.

audioaxes · Nov 29, 2005, 03:17 PM // 15:17

ive tried alot more combos and it seems pretty effective.... the thing is after 2 combos using flourish the 10 second recharge of it catches up with you

hamstring -> pure strike -> power attack -> flourish
savage slash -> pure strike -> power attack -> galrath -> flourish (wont be recharged yet so take a 1-2 more regualr hits)
savage slash -> pure strike -> power attack -> final thrust ->flourish
(by now you definitely feel the pinch of flourish's recharge time: if you dont do flourish before power attack recharges, you begin to be put in an energy hole thats hard to recover from)

it simply needs a shorter recharge to be halfway decent and make it a shout to be a "good" elite

Too Hot Fo You · Nov 29, 2005, 04:11 PM // 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by audioaxes

it simply needs a shorter recharge to be halfway decent and make it a shout to be a "good" elite

it's not the recharge of the elite that is bad, its the recharge of the warrior attacks that is too short, you have to think of the skill in another way. Actually I came up with a really funny idea, I can't wait to get home and test it out.
Flourish is not good for warrior only, try to use it with the skills of another profession. That's what I want to try out.

audioaxes · Nov 29, 2005, 07:14 PM // 19:14

no thats wrong. When you do you chain of hits you start with the longest recharged skill with the shortest. If you do it this way you can include attacks that are have a recharge as short as 2 seconds and get off flourish to gain energy and do it again. The problem is the recharge with flourish itself (including the retarding 1 second casting time).
To prove this just imagine every attack had a 15 second recharge which is more than long enough that it will still be charging when flourish gets recharged. So you do your 3 attack skills in like 5 seconds.... You now have 5 seconds where you are sitting on your hands and cant really do anything but regular attacks. If the recharge for flourish was down to 6 you can do these attacks with almost no gaps in between.

VGJustice · Nov 29, 2005, 08:01 PM // 20:01

I really need to cap this skill and experiment with it. Anyone know if it recharges traps? That could be so awesome.